After 28 years and nearly a thousand placements, Averity’s own relationship king, Alex Dubovoy, explains why trust, conversations, and community still outperform any algorithm in a so-called AI-obsessed world.
AI is everywhere in recruiting. It sources candidates, screens them, handles scheduling and in some cases, it’s even conducting the interviews.
We’re living in a time where human first recruiting in an AI world isn’t just a catchy phrase, it’s a competitive advantage.
Chris Allaire jokes that we’re heading toward a world where an AI agent representing the company argues with an AI agent representing the candidate—Alexa vs. Siri fighting it out while the humans watch from the sidelines.
For Alex Dubovoy, nearly three decades into recruiting, that future isn’t just silly. It’s dangerous.
“In my 28 years in recruitment,” Alex says, “I have never not one time placed a person without having a detailed conversation with them. Never. Not once.”
Because the real mechanics of hiring still live in one place: human nuance.
It’s not just what people say—it’s what they don’t say.
A bot can’t hear that.
A seasoned recruiter can.
Alex tells a familiar story: a candidate who sounded flat and distracted on a call. A bot would have rejected him instantly.
Alex heard something else: nerves.
So he did the most “low-tech” thing imaginable—he became human.
Cracked a joke. Opened up. Created safety.
And suddenly the candidate came alive.
He became someone with a story, skills, ambition, and heart.
That kind of transformation doesn’t happen in a screening portal.
Same with relocation.
A bot hears:
“I’d consider moving from Delaware to New York.” ✔️
Alex hears:
“Wait—why would someone move from a low cost-of-living area to New York while fully employed? What’s really happening?”
Same with compensation.
A bot hears:
“I want $200K.” ✖️ Too expensive. Reject.
Alex asks:
“If you absolutely loved the job, would $180K work?”
The candidate:
“Yeah… of course.”
That small space between checkbox answers and real conversations?
That’s where recruiting actually happens and where human first recruiting in an AI world quietly outperforms automated decision-making.
Alex isn’t anti-AI. Not even close.
He loves AI—when it’s used in the right places.
“I want to be on the phone all day,” he says. “Talking to interesting people. Solving business problems. If AI gives me more time to talk to humans, I’m in.”
Here’s where AI earns its keep:
When a CTO fires off five roles and three urgent business problems in 90 seconds, AI keeps track.
Not rewriting resumes—but capturing real human stories in the candidate’s actual words.
Humans forget. AI doesn’t.
Where AI belongs:
➡️ The back office (busywork)
Where humans belong:
➡️ The front office (trust, judgment, relationships)
Recruiting is relationship-first.
Technology is support-first.
That’s the essence of human first recruiting in an AI world: let machines handle mechanics so humans can handle meaning.
When Chris asks how important the network really is, Alex doesn’t blink:
“It’s why I can feed my children.”
Averity isn’t hired because we run clever Boolean strings.
We’re hired because of who answers the phone when we call.
Alex’s first-level network isn’t contacts—it’s a community built over 28 years:
People who return calls same-day.
Leaders who say, “Tell me what you’re working on.”
Engineers who trust him enough to consider opportunities they weren’t even looking for.
That’s why Alex is radically transparent. If a role is outside his lane, he says so. And when it is in his network?
That’s when lightning strikes.
• The FileMaker developer
Met through a friend. No open roles. One week later, a client says, “Know any FileMaker folks?”
That developer has now been there 14 years.
• The Go engineer
Chris insisted a client meet him even though there wasn’t an exact role.
The company created a job, paid above budget, hired him and later exited in a multi-billion-dollar sale.
You don’t get that from bots.
You get that from long-term relationships.
Alex makes a sharp observation: trust in this industry is the lowest he’s ever seen.
Resumes are AI-polished.
Profiles can be fake.
Candidates can be fabricated outright.
He tells the story of a candidate whose background looked “too good to be true.”
It scared him enough to check Averity’s database.
There he has been logged since 2018.
A real human.
The fact that he had to verify it says everything.
Trust is now currency.
It’s the engineer who calls you the moment they’re laid off.
The CTO who sighs with relief when you ask, “What business problem are we actually solving?”
The candidate who calls back years later just to say:
“You changed my life. You opened the door.”
Bots don’t build that.
People do.
Chris drops a powerful reminder:
You spend 75–80% of your waking life working—or preparing for work.
If that’s true, then who you work with matters more than anything.
That’s why Averity obsesses over humans, not just acronyms.
It’s why our average recruiter tenure is around seven years in an industry famous for churn.
It’s why Alex runs DevOps & Drinks, the largest DevOps meetup in NYC, built on three rules:
No recruiting.
No sales pitches.
No demos.
Just people showing up for connection, learning, and community.
Because when great humans choose to work together, you don’t just build teams.
You build momentum.
You build trust.
You build outcomes.
“People hire people,” Alex says. “When you get the right group of humans together, you’re an unstoppable force.”
If you’re hiring especially in AI, ML, Cyber, DevOps, Product, or Software Engineering—here’s the bottom line:
Automation is great for transcripts, summaries, scheduling, and reminders.
You cannot outsource judgment, nuance, or relationship-building.
Your future hires already exist, you just haven’t met them yet.
Your employer brand lives or dies on human connection.
Because at the end of the day, your hiring success won’t be defined by your tech stack.
It’ll be defined by a single line we hear more and more in conversations with candidates and clients:
“I’m just glad you’re not a bot.”
That’s the quiet power of human first recruiting in an AI world—and it’s not going away.
Interview with Daniel Wellner, Director Platform Engineering, Security and DevOps at Averity
By Chris Allaire — November 3, 2025
In today’s technology landscape, the traditional boundaries between engineering roles are dissolving.
Once, DevOps, Data Engineering, and Software Engineering were distinct lanes. Now, those roads converge into something far more complex — and far more in demand.
That’s where Danny Wellner lives.
Danny has spent nearly a decade recruiting some of the most advanced engineers in infrastructure, DevOps, and platform engineering. Trained by Averity co-founder Alex Dubovoy — widely regarded as one of the godfathers of DevOps recruiting — Danny has become one of the most trusted specialists in the field, helping companies build the technical backbone behind AI and next-generation systems.
“Pretty much every single technical role now has some sort of AI play or understanding built into it,” says Wellner. “It’s no longer just about deployment speed — it’s about building the ground for agentic-based systems and AI-driven services.”
What skills do AI-era engineers need most?
Traditional job boundaries are vanishing.
“You used to have a software engineer who built code, a data engineer who managed ETLs, and an infrastructure engineer who deployed systems,” Danny explains. “Now, companies want someone who can do all three — and understands AI tools on top of it.”
With nearly a decade of experience recruiting elite DevOps, platform, and infrastructure engineers, Danny brings deep technical fluency and a vast network of senior-level talent. Having witnessed how DevOps evolved into Platform Engineering and now into AI-driven infrastructure, he’s been at the center of that transformation since day one.
Where are the best AI engineers coming from?
If you think companies are training their people for this — think again.
“A lot of companies aren’t running this stuff in production yet,” Danny notes. “So the people who really know it? They’re learning on their own time — taking courses, experimenting, building projects, or working at the few companies actually pushing this tech forward.”
That curiosity and self-driven learning are the differentiators. Engineers who tinker are the ones who thrive.
Recruiters like Danny stay close to the action — tracking which companies are truly running AI in production and maintaining deep personal relationships across the industry.
“It’s not hard to keep up with people,” Danny says. “It’s just time-consuming. Maybe only 10% are working on cutting-edge AI, but those relationships are gold.”
How is AI impacting cybersecurity and data governance?
Every innovation creates new exposure. In 2025, security has never been more volatile.
“The attacks have ramped up tenfold,” says Danny. “It’s not just ransomware — it’s the sheer volume of attempts coming from everywhere.”
As companies race to integrate AI, new risks surface — from data leaks to unintentional public disclosures via tools like ChatGPT.
“You upload a public document to an AI tool, and it’s now public information,” Danny warns. “One small mistake can leave your entire company vulnerable.”
That’s why AI security and data governance have become core pillars of modern engineering. The rise of Application Security Engineers — software-savvy security experts who understand vulnerabilities in code and architecture — is reshaping what it means to protect a business.
“Data is the most valuable resource in the world right now,” Danny says. “Protecting it and keeping it clean — that’s the real challenge.”
How much do AI engineers make today?
Averity’s world lives at the top of the talent pyramid. Senior, Principal, and Staff-level engineers aren’t cheap — and they shouldn’t be.
“Baseline, you’re looking at $180K to $190K,” Danny shares. “But total comp can range up to $400K–$500K, depending on experience and specialization.”
And yes — the unicorns exist. Some engineers in AI and platform architecture are commanding $800K to $1M+ total compensation packages.
“The top-round draft picks get paid,” Danny says. “If you want to compete with the best companies in the world, you’ve got to pay top-round draft-pick salaries.”
Even in the age of automation, the human touch still separates the good from the great.
Danny emphasizes that relationships remain the currency of elite recruiting.
“Relationships are still everything,” he says. “Keeping the old ones healthy and building new ones — that’s where the magic happens.”
Few recruiters understand the evolution of infrastructure roles like Danny Wellner. After nearly ten years in DevOps and platform recruiting Danny’s perspective bridges the past, present, and future of how engineers build the systems that power AI.
And that’s where firms like Averity stand out — blending deep technical specialization with genuine human connection.
In a world where AI writes job posts and scans résumés, Danny and his team are talking to the people building the future — one connection at a time.
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